So by that level of thinking paying 20k for a chunk of metal fashioned into a car is unreasonable?
When we have Star Trek style replicators that can instantly materialize an endless number of perfect car copies for essentially no cost, then yes it will be.
Unlike data the scarcity of automobiles is not artificial. You need materials, engineering, and labor to make each car.
In summary, you're an idiot and you will remain an idiot for as long as you talk about things you clearly don't understand. That's what idiots do.
Trolls work on the myth/legend system. They work because in the back of your mind you know people who believe that.
There are people I know who are so cheap that they attempted to use a slice of PVC pipe for their wedding ring because they feel jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones. Not that different than people who feel organized bits are a racket. In the eyes of the company, he is the best procurement employee they've ever had.
There are people I know who are so cheap that they attempted to use a slice of PVC pipe for their wedding ring because they feel jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones.
The weird thing is, they're right. The jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones. How is it that they're smart enough to figure that out, but not smart enough to realize that replacing it with plastic is even stupider?
Back before I had said "I do" (or whatever it is they say in here Japan), I brought up this very discussion with my bride to be. What followed I can only assume was some sort of ninja mysticism that resulted in me buying an even more expensive set of wedding bands.
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers? With automobiles, there's heavy costs on both design and production. With software, almost all of the cost is shifted to design... but there's still significant cost that needs to be recouped.
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers?
Why don't they sell that service, instead of doing it entirely on spec and then, once it's totally complete, trying to recoup their costs by selling something demonstrably worthless, instead? Seems like kind of a broken business model.
Oh, wait, I know the answer: "BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE."
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers?
Why don't they sell that service, instead of doing it entirely on spec and then, once it's totally complete, trying to recoup their costs by selling something demonstrably worthless, instead? Seems like kind of a broken business model.
Oh, wait, I know the answer: "BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE."
Could you explain how the service would work, because I can't envision it.
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers?
Why don't they sell that service, instead of doing it entirely on spec and then, once it's totally complete, trying to recoup their costs by selling something demonstrably worthless, instead? Seems like kind of a broken business model.
Oh, wait, I know the answer: "BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE."
Could you explain how the service would work, because I can't envision it.
Like this [kickstarter.com], or this [kickstarter.com]
Would it be fair to say that these two projects got a fair measure of their massive lifts from industry vets that had already been through the model that you are disparaging?
The initial version, patches, support, and other infrastructure are all labor that go into making the software. In additions to all this, there are fringe costs, such as the building, power, computers, administrative support, social security fees, and so forth. The fact that the marginal cost of production is zero is neither here nor there. Investments must be recouped, or there will be no investments to speak of.
Corporate/private patronage and episodic content releases based on player prepayments could solve this problem. It's true the industry would be different and possibly smaller, but not gone. Someone would find a way to make money even if software was free, and the public domain would greatly benefit.
Well; regardless of more controversial positions on copyright, I've thought for a while that software copyright should be about 7 years or so, and then completely expire. I really don't think all works are created equal. Things that have a short value on the market should not have the near-indefinite copyright that they do today. Rather, it should transition to the commons soon enough that it still has some value to the commons.
Using my approach, the creator of the software still has every reasonable abilit
Star Trek replicators actually consume an immense amount of energy. They're not "free." They just happened to have conveniently solved that problem with matter/antimatter reactors to power them.
That is the stupidest comment I have ever read. You know these companies that make software, they have staff, they are not going to work for free because they need to pay for food, shelter, travel, fuel, health care, entertainment, education and save some up for an emergency, For themselves and often for other dependents as well. These people are good at "sequencing bits" in new original ways, when executed on a computer that will give entertainment to others. You are not paying for the bits you are paying for the work to make it. Well if you think about it you are probably more likely paying for them to work on their next project.
Standard GNU methods of making profit doesn't work too well with games. 1. You are not going to charge for consulting. If the game needs a consultant they wont play it. 2. If you are not going to charge for support. They just won't pay for it. 3. You could sell add ons. However you need to be careful as those add ons may break the GNU. 4. You package the game on a piece of hardware. Which may work... However after they get the source there will be a PC version soon and they will no longer need your hardware.
Sorry but the GNU model doesn't lead itself for a market of developers. if all software was GNU then Programming will be strictly a part-time/hobby thing and quality will go down the toilet because in order to make money they will need other full time jobs with a different discipline and less people willing to study computer science.
Exactly. Its disturbing how many pirates only listen to the parts of OSS that they want to hear and ignore the parts they don't. Interestingly enough, the parts they always want to listen to is "free" and the parts they always want to ignore is "money."
Stealing is taking anything to which you are not legally entitled. Piracy is just another form of theft. And before some moronic blow hard jumps in like a three year old child trying to correct an adult, there are many different types of theft in most law aro
Ah, ok, so "copyright infringement" and refusing to pay when you owe the money required to pay, breaking EULAs and service agreements and such is now "broken business model."
"I don't want to pay for things that require money to make" is just defying a "broken business model."
First off, not all linux applications need to follow the GNU. You can distribute a linux application with any license you please -- it may hinder repository access with particular distributions, but there's nothing stopping you from creating your own application manager, putting THAT in the repository, and then using that to distribute your games. Just saying.
Second, freemium is how it's all going to be in a decade full stop. You might as well get on that wagon now. And GNOME and KDE are almost to the point where Grandma can be trained to use it just as easily as Windows, which is the benchmark I tend to use when I consider the emerging market for a particular operating system. So, I expect that in another decade, there'll be a fair whack of linux machines with a fair whack of non-nerd users.
Finally, why you'd write anything in any language you can't cross-compile without great expense or redevelopment I just don't understand.
if u see software as a "tool" then gnu says: take a tool from our pool; if u modify it aÃr make a new tool, blease give back, so that we prospere.
this works for compilers, codecs, math software, editors, kernels and such. actually it works in all situations where "knowledge" is accumualting.
it may not work for the games themselves, but for the tools to make games with, it works.
Well if you think about it you are probably more likely paying for them to work on their next project.
Yes, if you think about it. In fact, even if you don't think about it, that's STILL what you're really paying them for. In fact, every single dollar that goes towards making the next game comes directly from customers giving money to the publisher.
The problem is, if the people actually MAKING the game successfully promote this angle, then pretty soon the people PUBLISHING the game have to get a job making french fries or something. And they don't want that, no they don't.
GNU can work with online games like Diablo III is expected to be. People will pay to access the server. The fact that unofficial servers can be used is not really a problem if the official server is well maintained. There are many games where the official server is more popular than the free alternatives. Also keep in mind that GNU code doesn't mean that the graphics, sounds, levels etc... are free. Take Quake3 for example : the code is GPL but if you want to play the original game, you still need the origina
Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:-1, Troll)
Didn't think so, therefore I'm not interested. Linux defines who I am.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:0)
If refusing to pay for a sequence of bits is considered cheap, then yes, by all means, call me cheap.
Re: (Score:0)
So by that level of thinking paying 20k for a chunk of metal fashioned into a car is unreasonable?
Re: (Score:0)
I never said I would pay "20k for a chunk of metal fashioned into a car" either.
Re: (Score:-1)
So by that level of thinking paying 20k for a chunk of metal fashioned into a car is unreasonable?
When we have Star Trek style replicators that can instantly materialize an endless number of perfect car copies for essentially no cost, then yes it will be.
Unlike data the scarcity of automobiles is not artificial. You need materials, engineering, and labor to make each car.
In summary, you're an idiot and you will remain an idiot for as long as you talk about things you clearly don't understand. That's what idiots do.
Re: (Score:0)
Trolling hard today, I see ...
Re: (Score:2)
Trolls work on the myth/legend system. They work because in the back of your mind you know people who believe that.
There are people I know who are so cheap that they attempted to use a slice of PVC pipe for their wedding ring because they feel jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones. Not that different than people who feel organized bits are a racket. In the eyes of the company, he is the best procurement employee they've ever had.
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:5, Funny)
There are people I know who are so cheap that they attempted to use a slice of PVC pipe for their wedding ring because they feel jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones.
The weird thing is, they're right. The jewelry industry is a racket to sell shiny stones. How is it that they're smart enough to figure that out, but not smart enough to realize that replacing it with plastic is even stupider?
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Back before I had said "I do" (or whatever it is they say in here Japan), I brought up this very discussion with my bride to be. What followed I can only assume was some sort of ninja mysticism that resulted in me buying an even more expensive set of wedding bands.
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers? With automobiles, there's heavy costs on both design and production. With software, almost all of the cost is shifted to design... but there's still significant cost that needs to be recouped.
Re: (Score:2)
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers?
Why don't they sell that service, instead of doing it entirely on spec and then, once it's totally complete, trying to recoup their costs by selling something demonstrably worthless, instead? Seems like kind of a broken business model.
Oh, wait, I know the answer: "BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE."
Re: (Score:2)
So computer programs appear out of thin air? They don't require programmers, artists or project managers?
Why don't they sell that service, instead of doing it entirely on spec and then, once it's totally complete, trying to recoup their costs by selling something demonstrably worthless, instead? Seems like kind of a broken business model.
Oh, wait, I know the answer: "BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE."
Could you explain how the service would work, because I can't envision it.
Re: (Score:3)
Like this [kickstarter.com], or this [kickstarter.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
So computer programs appear out of thin air?
Well, yes. That's why you need alcohol to get vaporware into an finished product and use ethernet to download it.
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
The initial version, patches, support, and other infrastructure are all labor that go into making the software. In additions to all this, there are fringe costs, such as the building, power, computers, administrative support, social security fees, and so forth. The fact that the marginal cost of production is zero is neither here nor there. Investments must be recouped, or there will be no investments to speak of.
Re: (Score:2)
Corporate/private patronage and episodic content releases based on player prepayments could solve this problem. It's true the industry would be different and possibly smaller, but not gone. Someone would find a way to make money even if software was free, and the public domain would greatly benefit.
Re: (Score:2)
Well; regardless of more controversial positions on copyright, I've thought for a while that software copyright should be about 7 years or so, and then completely expire. I really don't think all works are created equal. Things that have a short value on the market should not have the near-indefinite copyright that they do today. Rather, it should transition to the commons soon enough that it still has some value to the commons.
Using my approach, the creator of the software still has every reasonable abilit
Re: (Score:0)
Star Trek replicators actually consume an immense amount of energy. They're not "free." They just happened to have conveniently solved that problem with matter/antimatter reactors to power them.
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know these companies that make software, they have staff, they are not going to work for free because they need to pay for food, shelter, travel, fuel, health care, entertainment, education and save some up for an emergency, For themselves and often for other dependents as well. These people are good at "sequencing bits" in new original ways, when executed on a computer that will give entertainment to others. You are not paying for the bits you are paying for the work to make it. Well if you think about it you are probably more likely paying for them to work on their next project.
Standard GNU methods of making profit doesn't work too well with games.
1. You are not going to charge for consulting. If the game needs a consultant they wont play it.
2. If you are not going to charge for support. They just won't pay for it.
3. You could sell add ons. However you need to be careful as those add ons may break the GNU.
4. You package the game on a piece of hardware. Which may work... However after they get the source there will be a PC version soon and they will no longer need your hardware.
Sorry but the GNU model doesn't lead itself for a market of developers. if all software was GNU then Programming will be strictly a part-time/hobby thing and quality will go down the toilet because in order to make money they will need other full time jobs with a different discipline and less people willing to study computer science.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re: (Score:0)
Exactly. Its disturbing how many pirates only listen to the parts of OSS that they want to hear and ignore the parts they don't. Interestingly enough, the parts they always want to listen to is "free" and the parts they always want to ignore is "money."
Stealing is taking anything to which you are not legally entitled. Piracy is just another form of theft. And before some moronic blow hard jumps in like a three year old child trying to correct an adult, there are many different types of theft in most law aro
Re: (Score:0)
They will rationalize anything so as to justify their criminal activity.
Well...yes. They're "pirates". Why would you expect anything different?
Re: (Score:2)
But don't steal. If it's not yours, hands OFF!
It's no one else's responsibility to make your poor business model work. Using language like "steal" where it's not appropriate just makes you look foolish. [scribd.com]
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, ok, so "copyright infringement" and refusing to pay when you owe the money required to pay, breaking EULAs and service agreements and such is now "broken business model."
"I don't want to pay for things that require money to make" is just defying a "broken business model."
Re:Yeah but does it work on Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
First off, not all linux applications need to follow the GNU. You can distribute a linux application with any license you please -- it may hinder repository access with particular distributions, but there's nothing stopping you from creating your own application manager, putting THAT in the repository, and then using that to distribute your games. Just saying.
Second, freemium is how it's all going to be in a decade full stop. You might as well get on that wagon now. And GNOME and KDE are almost to the point where Grandma can be trained to use it just as easily as Windows, which is the benchmark I tend to use when I consider the emerging market for a particular operating system. So, I expect that in another decade, there'll be a fair whack of linux machines with a fair whack of non-nerd users.
Finally, why you'd write anything in any language you can't cross-compile without great expense or redevelopment I just don't understand.
gnu works for "tools" (Score:-1)
Re: (Score:2)
Well if you think about it you are probably more likely paying for them to work on their next project.
Yes, if you think about it. In fact, even if you don't think about it, that's STILL what you're really paying them for. In fact, every single dollar that goes towards making the next game comes directly from customers giving money to the publisher.
The problem is, if the people actually MAKING the game successfully promote this angle, then pretty soon the people PUBLISHING the game have to get a job making french fries or something. And they don't want that, no they don't.
Re: (Score:1)
GNU can work with online games like Diablo III is expected to be.
People will pay to access the server. The fact that unofficial servers can be used is not really a problem if the official server is well maintained. There are many games where the official server is more popular than the free alternatives.
Also keep in mind that GNU code doesn't mean that the graphics, sounds, levels etc... are free. Take Quake3 for example : the code is GPL but if you want to play the original game, you still need the origina
Re: (Score:1)
If refusing to pay for a sequence of bits is considered cheap, then yes, by all means, call me cheap.
Sweet. You refuse to pay for software that isn't being developed for a non-existent gaming platform. Good to know. Go buy an xbox or a mac.