Many women are interested in using technology, they just don't want to dive in to quite the same depth.
When it comes to technology you have to be balls deep.
Joking aside (nice one, though), you make a very good point. That was the one part of the article that struck me regardless of gender. This is why we even have different levels of geeks (from script kiddie to Ubergeek). It's all a matter of dedication and passion.
That being said, perhaps there is a parallel between the gender dominance and the dedication and passion it takes. I'm not saying that women don't have the dedication and passion, but true Ubergeeks tend to sacrifice a lot (like a social life and even personal grooming habits to varying degrees) to get to and stay on top of their game.
I used to think that too. Most women are not interested in technology but they could be as good at it that the most talented (male) hackers are. But there are six billion people in this world and I can't think of a single open source project headed by a female programmer. Not even seem a female patch contributor (but pseudonyms makes it hard sometimes). I have never personally met a female programmer that was above average. The best female programmers didn't even play in the same division as the good male o
The thing with usernames though, is that you really DON'T know. Hell, one of the usernames I use is gender-specific (ends in "girl") and people still assume I'm male.
You've made me recall the decade-old geek-girl.com - UNIX reference website.
I was a male teenager in 1996, and I was fascinated that a woman could so dominate the highly-technical website that I frequented that time. In fact, I was having slight crushes then, imagining how she'd look, fantasizing how I'd talk to her...
Well, I don't know if these two examples meet anyone's definition of "great female hacker", but they're both very competent and informed: On the Windows side, Paula Tomlinson used to have a regular feature on Windows NT internals and programming in Windows Developer Journal. On the Unix side, Amy Rich used to answer questions in the Q&A monthly in Sys Admin Magazine. I'm sure there are others out there.
Where are they? They're not there. If they're anywhere, they're more in the "services" side of IT.
IT related stuff is mentally difficult stuff. Women as a gender are much more 'balanced' intellectually than males: they have a lot fewer retards, and a lot fewer geniuses. There are also fewer people on the extreme sides of normal (using conventional methods of testing intelligence).
As such, there's simply a smaller pool of conventionally smart women to pull from - and due to the fact that women are, as a gene
Does being at the top of the geek game seriously require the lack of a 15 minute shower or a 10 minute trip to the washer/dryer for laundry? Isn't there some sort of larger personality issue involved there?
In and of itself, no. The tendency of some geeks to neglect personal hygiene, in most cases I've seen, is a motivational issue more than anything else.
While not all or even most geeks go so far as to neglect personal hygiene, I believe that most geeks make at least marginal sacrifices as far as having a social life goes. In some extreme cases, the whole concept of a social life is out the proverbial window.
Why do we practice personal hygiene to begin with? I would say that there are three reasons we pr
I can only speak for myself, but for me, for the past several years, I have neglected showering SPECIFICALLY as an adaptive defense against flirting.
I'm a pretty deep geek; I spend all my time outside of work playing with technology, playing video games, and watching geeky TV on DVD. For me, a relationship would End Life As I Know It. Horrors!
So, I let myself get a little fat, and I make sure that I'm just odorous enough to repel people who wish to enter my personal space. It's a fine balance, but showeri
> I can only speak for myself, but for me, for the past several years, I have neglected showering SPECIFICALLY as an adaptive defense against flirting.
It actually takes much more time than that. I keep myself very well groomed but it annoys me every day. It really does take a lot of time - time that I could be reading slashdot!
It *is* a larger personality issue. Most nerds I know prioritize things very differently than non-nerds. I'm much more willing to spend time doing certain things that non-nerds would consider a complete waste of time, than things that non-nerds consider essential (including showering and doing laundry, but non-grooming related stuff
Does being at the top of the geek game seriously require the lack of a 15 minute shower or a 10 minute trip to the washer/dryer for laundry? Isn't there some sort of larger personality issue involved there?
The lack of showering and laundering is a facet of that "personality issue". If you're the type of person who would rather spend an extra 15 minutes learning Haskell than shower, then you're a "true geek". If you value "smelling good", "having clean clothes", etc. more than "having 15 more minutes to tinker with your computer", then you're not a "true geek".
> but true Ubergeeks tend to sacrifice a lot (like a social life and even personal grooming habits to varying degrees) to get to and stay on top of their game.
I'm not sure about the part about personal grooming habits. It doesn't take that long to shower, and itching all over detracts from concentration. Rather, I suspect that poor grooming habits and lack of social skills are parts of the geek subculture and in most cases are an affectation rather than a characteristic.
Dedication? Women who actually persue a career in a field like Computer Science or Electrical Engineering have way more dedication than you could possibly imagine. Just read through some of the sexist comments on this article - women should just learn how to use a webcam so it can be pointed at their cleavage? Who says that? Sad part is that some of you actually do make comments like that to our faces. This is my daily experience as a CS PhD student in a top program. Anyway, point being, we deal with all of
Dedication? Women who actually persue a career in a field like Computer Science or Electrical Engineering have way more dedication than you could possibly imagine.
Hey, I have the utmost respect for the 2% of the population that have the brains to tackle an EE or CS degree at the PhD level. Doubly so for the.01% of those who are women.
Just read through some of the sexist comments on this article - women should just learn how to use a webcam so it can be pointed at their cleavage? Who says that? Sad part is that some of you actually do make comments like that to our faces.
Ah, yes, and since that person is standing in front of you saying that, as a fairly intelligent person, you should be able to tell that he is not only a virgin, but reeks of "I just played Halo for 17 straight hours". Please do not let socially inept nerds like this deter you from your goals.
This is my daily experience as a CS PhD student in a top program. Anyway, point being, we deal with all of the bullshit sexual harassment and discrimination from our male colleagues every day and put up with it because we love what we do and are dedicated to it.
Interestingly, I have seen more women in the software engineering program at my school than in the CS one (although both are still male-dominated), despite the curriculum and skills significantly overlapping at the undergraduate level. The mean grades don't differ significantly either. So it doesn't sound like a difference in ability.
Also, the distribution is much closer to uniform when considering only international students.
It seems like an image problem: CS is nerdy. CS is uncool. CS will require you to
All or nothing i'm afraid. (Score:5, Funny)
Many women are interested in using technology, they just don't want to dive in to quite the same depth.
When it comes to technology you have to be balls deep.
Re:All or nothing i'm afraid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Many women are interested in using technology, they just don't want to dive in to quite the same depth.
When it comes to technology you have to be balls deep.
Joking aside (nice one, though), you make a very good point. That was the one part of the article that struck me regardless of gender. This is why we even have different levels of geeks (from script kiddie to Ubergeek). It's all a matter of dedication and passion.
That being said, perhaps there is a parallel between the gender dominance and the dedication and passion it takes. I'm not saying that women don't have the dedication and passion, but true Ubergeeks tend to sacrifice a lot (like a social life and even personal grooming habits to varying degrees) to get to and stay on top of their game.
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I used to think that too. Most women are not interested in technology but they could be as good at it that the most talented (male) hackers are. But there are six billion people in this world and I can't think of a single open source project headed by a female programmer. Not even seem a female patch contributor (but pseudonyms makes it hard sometimes). I have never personally met a female programmer that was above average. The best female programmers didn't even play in the same division as the good male o
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Umm, no.
That's three seconds out of ten, however, which is a rather large percentage.
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The fastest woman is only three seconds slower than the fastest person.
Ouch.
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You've made me recall the decade-old geek-girl.com - UNIX reference website.
I was a male teenager in 1996, and I was fascinated that a woman could so dominate the highly-technical website that I frequented that time. In fact, I was having slight crushes then, imagining how she'd look, fantasizing how I'd talk to her...
Memories of a (still-)adolescent male adult. :)
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Well, I don't know if these two examples meet anyone's definition of "great female hacker", but they're both very competent and informed: On the Windows side, Paula Tomlinson used to have a regular feature on Windows NT internals and programming in Windows Developer Journal. On the Unix side, Amy Rich used to answer questions in the Q&A monthly in Sys Admin Magazine. I'm sure there are others out there.
- T
heh - captcha is "skilled".
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Where are they? They're not there. If they're anywhere, they're more in the "services" side of IT.
IT related stuff is mentally difficult stuff. Women as a gender are much more 'balanced' intellectually than males: they have a lot fewer retards, and a lot fewer geniuses. There are also fewer people on the extreme sides of normal (using conventional methods of testing intelligence).
As such, there's simply a smaller pool of conventionally smart women to pull from - and due to the fact that women are, as a gene
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GTFO my /.!
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While not all or even most geeks go so far as to neglect personal hygiene, I believe that most geeks make at least marginal sacrifices as far as having a social life goes. In some extreme cases, the whole concept of a social life is out the proverbial window.
Why do we practice personal hygiene to begin with? I would say that there are three reasons we pr
Re: (Score:0)
I can only speak for myself, but for me, for the past several years, I have neglected showering SPECIFICALLY as an adaptive defense against flirting.
I'm a pretty deep geek; I spend all my time outside of work playing with technology, playing video games, and watching geeky TV on DVD. For me, a relationship would End Life As I Know It. Horrors!
So, I let myself get a little fat, and I make sure that I'm just odorous enough to repel people who wish to enter my personal space. It's a fine balance, but showeri
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> I can only speak for myself, but for me, for the past several years, I have neglected showering SPECIFICALLY as an adaptive defense against flirting.
Luxury problem much?
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"COULDN'T CARE LESS"
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"Isn't there some sort of larger personality issue involved there?"
Other than the reasonable expectation that the flies will take care of my grooming?
It takes more time than that (Score:2)
It actually takes much more time than that. I keep myself very well groomed but it annoys me every day. It really does take a lot of time - time that I could be reading slashdot!
It *is* a larger personality issue. Most nerds I know prioritize things very differently than non-nerds. I'm much more willing to spend time doing certain things that non-nerds would consider a complete waste of time, than things that non-nerds consider essential (including showering and doing laundry, but non-grooming related stuff
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Does being at the top of the geek game seriously require the lack of a 15 minute shower or a 10 minute trip to the washer/dryer for laundry? Isn't there some sort of larger personality issue involved there?
The lack of showering and laundering is a facet of that "personality issue". If you're the type of person who would rather spend an extra 15 minutes learning Haskell than shower, then you're a "true geek". If you value "smelling good", "having clean clothes", etc. more than "having 15 more minutes to tinker with your computer", then you're not a "true geek".
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(like a social life and even personal grooming habits to varying degrees)
Oh c'mon... most ubergeeks are willing to sacrifice WAY more than that. Hell, I don't think those are even considered sacrifices.
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> but true Ubergeeks tend to sacrifice a lot (like a social life and even personal grooming habits to varying degrees) to get to and stay on top of their game.
I'm not sure about the part about personal grooming habits. It doesn't take that long to shower, and itching all over detracts from concentration. Rather, I suspect that poor grooming habits and lack of social skills are parts of the geek subculture and in most cases are an affectation rather than a characteristic.
That said, as a kid, it gra
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Dedication? Women who actually persue a career in a field like Computer Science or Electrical Engineering have way more dedication than you could possibly imagine. Just read through some of the sexist comments on this article - women should just learn how to use a webcam so it can be pointed at their cleavage? Who says that? Sad part is that some of you actually do make comments like that to our faces. This is my daily experience as a CS PhD student in a top program. Anyway, point being, we deal with all of
Don't let it deter you! (Score:0)
Dedication? Women who actually persue a career in a field like Computer Science or Electrical Engineering have way more dedication than you could possibly imagine.
Hey, I have the utmost respect for the 2% of the population that have the brains to tackle an EE or CS degree at the PhD level. Doubly so for the .01% of those who are women.
Just read through some of the sexist comments on this article - women should just learn how to use a webcam so it can be pointed at their cleavage? Who says that? Sad part is that some of you actually do make comments like that to our faces.
Ah, yes, and since that person is standing in front of you saying that, as a fairly intelligent person, you should be able to tell that he is not only a virgin, but reeks of "I just played Halo for 17 straight hours". Please do not let socially inept nerds like this deter you from your goals.
This is my daily experience as a CS PhD student in a top program. Anyway, point being, we deal with all of the bullshit sexual harassment and discrimination from our male colleagues every day and put up with it because we love what we do and are dedicated to it.
Unfortunately, even in Marketing, you're go
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You win.
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This kind of elitist geek sexism, in a nutshell, is why women don't pursue advanced degrees in computer science.
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Interestingly, I have seen more women in the software engineering program at my school than in the CS one (although both are still male-dominated), despite the curriculum and skills significantly overlapping at the undergraduate level. The mean grades don't differ significantly either. So it doesn't sound like a difference in ability.
Also, the distribution is much closer to uniform when considering only international students.
It seems like an image problem: CS is nerdy. CS is uncool. CS will require you to
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> When it comes to technology you have to be balls deep.
This sounds like one where Sakdoctor probably knows what he's talking about.
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Maybe that's why there's less women in the geekdom? They can't go balls deep!